What you write about Narcissism is really interesting - I have a friend who has told me it seems as if my mother might have been naracisstic - I always thought of my mother as codependent but what you write fits her too so - yes - intriguing, You are right - any put-downs - subtle or not - are toxic and I lived with them until I walked out - often over decades - and they do drag us down and I found myself self-questioning too much until she died - it took me a long time but you seem to have got your frenemy's number - people who live empty lives do tend to need other people for entertainment, Yes - her asking you personal questions and a lot of them might be to have a goal to have you there to fill her life and use her "put-downs", I'm glad she hasn't borrowed money from you nor anything else but imo time is more valuable - I'm glad you already have her figured out - now you can be on your guide, It's so interesting - but be wary - yes -. Thanks for the suggestion about the book. I'm sorry to hear that your Mum may have been a narcissist,@Dec. And what I find very confusing is a lot of the time very pleasant and none of this obvious.

Yes, I see these traits in my husband. however, there are homeless shelters. Ok fine. Ive been married for 5-6 years now and long story short, its been awful! Is there a way I can still get any of that without jeopardizing the psychologist career? Be sure I have control over some of it. I feel like Im spinning around in circles. There isn't any changing it and her behavior is the classic glass half full and in actuality, the glass is half full and at any moment someone is trying to steal her glass and it's a family heirloom. I feel better the craziness isnt my fault like he says, but I feel so foolish that I didnt catch on to this sooner. Upon further research into narcissism, it turns out there are basic subtypes among mental health professionals. well if she hadnt called OP and said those things, she wouldnt be in trouble. The fact that she did this, shocked me. This psychologist, whos never met him, would not be permitted to testify in regards to his fitness. The funny thing is that she actually had no reason to lie to me, so I don't understand it. Meaning do it as legitimate couples therapy, even if you have to pay for it. I've known some narcissists and they can be persistently manipulative and dangerous. Which is another reason I dont think much of the therapist you saw. I remember well you writing about your Mum in the past and I had a difficult Mum too, so we will always have that in common. Youll need a divorce lawyer. 2022Everyday Health, Inc, The views expressed in community are solely the opinions of participants, and do not reflect those of What to Expect. She said anyone will see the problem and it can be adequately documented to later be used, if needs be, in court. Her husband could justifiably file a complaint against her license that would land her in court fighting to get it back. Also worth checking out r/NarcissisticAbuse and r/raisedbynarcissists subreddits on Reddit. I wouldnt trust her after the way she handled the situation. I am the same in that I do not want to label. And I almost feel like the worst part is, even if I did consider staying for a while longer or whatever, how will that decision look to a court? A Group Owner is a member that has initiated the creation of a group to connect with other members to share their journey through the same pregnancy & baby stages. I must say- I don't know who she is! SANE acknowledges the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as traditional custodians of the land on which it operates. Hes an introvert. Tell close family members or friends, people that you trust, of what you're planning and do it quickly. Just read your comment about credit cards. He is meant to be excellent - I know other people who see him and who highly recommendhim. This action cannot be undone. It's funny, that is actually the first thing I realized about my friend - not that she was manipulative (which she definitely is) - but that she is so empty. We respect everyones right to express their thoughts and opinions as long as they remain respectful of other community members, and meet What to Expects Terms of Use. But Im dizzy. But with a narcissist this is kind of difficult, becausethey alreadythink they are great with empathy, even when they are so not. I know the right step now is offense! This is a woman who subtly puts me down is many ways and whenI call her out, she then turns it around to look like I am accusing her wrongly. The former for confirming stories that you are *not* crazy, and the latter for stories regarding the childs point of view of having a narc parent and also some insight on enabling parents and how they affect their kids. thank you all for responding. She is more careful in what she says. Are you sure you want to delete your comment? As soon as there is a prospect of narcissistic injury - off they go into Crazy Badlands. The main reason seems to be that they always have to act in their client's best interest and so if it was not in their best interest to receive this label (and how could it be?) I think her put downs and subtle criticismsare ways of trying to control me. It is unwise to seek prominence in a field whose routine chores you do not enjoy. Please specify a reason for deleting this reply from the community. After reading that covert narcissist thing, that was the missing piece! My wife is definitely in the overt spectrum. Inside, she is very empty. being disabled and a victim of abuse - you'd be in front of the line, so even if the shelter itself sucks - you wont be staying there for years. Find someone who is professional and can do their job well. But every single thing he does is passive aggressive and there are a million times that I have genuinely thought he was intentionally trying to make me crazy. i have found shelter and a network of help (i live in nyc) and am about to utilize those resources. However, few years ago when I worked as a volunteer at my local facility we did get a small percentage of phone calls from men seeking help to leave abusive situations. I just read your comment and almost wrote the same thing in reply to you! I hope it works out for you. Covert Narcissist - my friend could be one? Or his kids. Know that as a male it is way harder to get assistance in a lot of places. She can be a lot of fun, but I recently caught her out in a lie. All of this is really hard - she is empty inside and can't bear to be alone - but is she using you to fill this place in her life? None of it. I am thinking of trying to cut contact with my friend, to an extent. She says her 'put downs' are healthy ways of challenging my reality, but I stronglydisagree with her on this. She has not borrowed money from me or asked for anything else. File for divorce, get yourself a good support system. If this is something she does regularly, she probably should be worried about her license being revoked. Then its madness and rage, off the scale. Be aware theyll likely order one for you as well, if his lawyer is decent. I dont know what to do. I watched some of Dr. Ramani's videos on youtube. This is a difficult and complex situation and you deserve support. but she is obviously, in my mind, creating an artificial past, to which she can reference if she needs. My advice would be to go to a different therapist on the up and up. I just let them fly over my head these days. I don't much care for labels and I am not a psychologist, so I have no right to label her, anyway. This is really hard. But I watched this video online today about covert narcissism and what they described suited her to a tee. He obviously knows I was dead serious because for the first time ever, he agreed to marriage counseling. She also gave me many names of people closer to my area and strongly advised that we see someone local, in person, for at least 4-5 sessions. You have word of mouth from a therapist who read his intake paperwork.

Group Owners uphold the core values of the brand by reporting content that violates the community guidelines. I wonder if emotional focused therapy would be helpful for you guys. Stay neutral and calm. Until she's not. She also stayed with me on the phone while she searched for anyone to see us in person and informed me that out of pocket or not, do it for at least 4-5 sessions. If you move forward with divorce, which I hate to say is almost inevitable, this will help you across the board especially in a custody battle if it ends up there. Please whitelist our site to get all the best deals and offers from our partners. We also support the family and friends who care about them, Read mental health information and watch stories from people like you at your own pace, Find out how to support us in making positive change for people affected by complex mental health issues. Any here even know what a covert narcissist is? Or does he loose them??? I am still trying to deal with my feelings and mourn the loss of what I thought the relationship was and could be. Its just unethical on so many levels. But if you defend yourself / strongly disagree with something which they perceive as all about them ( even if it isn't) then all the PA gaslighring etc comes out . yes. plr narcissistic disorder personality mrr This board has helped me in so many ways.Ill try to be as brief as I can as I know we all have little ones and lives.-only messages when she needs somethingand does so in a passive aggressive/manipulative fashion. How do you figure this out? (completely unacceptable imo). They pretty much think they are great at everything! All the time. When she misbehaved at my wedding they could give me a gauge of reality. Start making sure you know where your money is and that youre not being monitored somehow. Charity ABN 92 006 533 606. I read somewhere that narcissists can be fine - AS LONG AS the subject matter has no emotional significance for them. We are committed to providing a safe, culturally appropriate, and inclusive service for all people, regardless of their ethnicity, faith, disability, sexuality, or gender identity. But I do know she is very empty inside. I also notice regular conversation often involves me being asked lots and lots of questions I think it is to make me feel off balance/ on defence I don't know why. Everyone likes to be askedabout themselves. So the the psychologist was going to see my husband first for one session and then bring me into the consecutive sessions. But having been through this, Id say get out while youre still (mostly) in one piece. The goal is to dig in deeper on childhood/trauma that may be causing the behavior issues/friction. Other women would not have done the same- they would have got out. I agree with your assessment of the therapist. Does the label matter?

Stay neutral and calm. psychologies Do nothing that could appear shady or dishonest so that you dont give him the chance to retaliate. I actually walked down the aisle to Patricks cover of Simply the Best that he sings to David! 100%! Idk. It was one giant step too far for me! SANE offers connection and community to people with complex mental health issues including trauma. This was the reason she said she couldnt end up in court. So I cant thank this dr enough. She is nasty about my successesand achievements- but she does it in a round-about way, never really obvious - like snide comments that she could pass off as jokes. That was the first sign something was up with her. She told me to get my finances in order. That would not be an easy thing to do. I have come to the conclusion so many times that he was either narcissistic or a psychopath, that her assumption definitely caught my attention. The psychologist called me just before our first appointment and told me that she just read our intake forms and unfortunately, she will be unable to help us. I think it would be more harmful to you to divorce him without continuing through with therapy and getting his issues documented. If youve decided then start looking for a lawyer. All Rights Reserved. Her ultimate goal in using me is just so as not to be alone and not to feel so empty inside. lovefraud About your frenemy - it must be hard to know what to do about her - after all she might be a person who has problems - I think it would need to be assessed as to how much this is impinging into your life - and a choice - do you need to cut it off straight away or gradually?

Thats a good example of her own trauma bleeding into her practice and making her do questionable things. Get your finances in order. I cant imagine filling out paperwork and having them say they wont see us because of my husband. I know she meant well because she told me her first husband was a narcissist and just didnt want anyone to go through what she went through. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Sometimes I have to get up and walk around and think about it - this was just the case -. For not doing what is in the best interest of the child? Best of luck! I have picked her up on her 'put downs' numerous times and the behaviors have improved a bit. Perhaps they might suspect it an treat you as though you could be one, but not actually say it? agreed. Recently, her boyfriend (who was very flaky) broke up with her and it made me feel sorry for her. in regards to her allegations that i am the abuser she has never, to the best of my knowledge, formalized any legal documentation to that affect. My husband did something I consider unforgivable so I told him, were getting a divorce. I absolutely love your advice! First, I would highly advise you to request some form of written documentation from the psychologist you spoke with, stating that based on his self provided evaluation, hes exhibiting narcissism to a degree that jeopardizes her safety as his psychologist. I would have taken it all with a grain of salt, if she would have labeled him with something that I didnt already think of 1000 times.

And I fell for it year after year. in response to: Re: Covert Narcissist - my friend could be one. I found that the more he saw my friend becoming stronger the worse he got. Deep down though, they are filled with self-loathing. My friend ended up with debt on cc that she didnt even know existed. I just went and did a lot of reading and researched this question as best I could. Yes I see these too. A friend just finalized divorce from a narcissist and it was a long process. Also a certain smug ness / superiority which is not necessarily as outwardly displayed as in the overt. Find a good divorce lawyer for just you. You need to run a report and remove him from all your credit cards ASAP. Sometimes also she is very, very nice. This sounds really heavy for you to be dealing with. Group Leaders communicate with staff moderators and escalate potential violations for review, but they dont moderate discussions. Ive experienced many silent treatments over the years as well. Be prepared for a long process, but please don't give up. That would have been hard. She is seeing a therapist and has done so for over 10 years. reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts. I will advise you on these: do NOT tell your husband what you are doing, by the way.

Very interesting forum. One thing I can't deal with is thinking that her interest in me as a person was entirely faked, just to feed her narcissistic supply!

Your psychologist thought she would lose her license for seeing him? these are only to friends and family. I don't know, though, because she has been a big part of my life. Two of her other friends have recently told me that they strongly suspect her of trying to flirt with their husbands and possibly even more, if she had the chance. While I feel for you (I am married to the son of a sociopath - Ive seen more than most), I am very surprised that she is allowed to disclose this information to you. Interesting. Thank you so much.

What am I up against? Im sure the therapist here meant well, but armchair diagnosis is unethical, and also not really helpful to OP (or anyone). Have then subjected myself to acting as a bad mother? I spent 5 years on the defense, and the last while, in some weird state of indifference/giving up. She went on to advise me on some good key first steps, some divorce information, some words of wisdom and implored me to trust her on this. But a mutually agreed upon (by your lawyers and/or the court) clinician could potentially diagnose and also offer insight into how it would impact his parenting- this WOULD hold up in court. Every bit of literature Ive seen so far gives basically the same advice that this women just gave me. SAME. SANE is a public company limited by guarantee and registered tax-exempt charity with DGR (Deductible Gift Recipient) status. The silent treatment is because "I just didn't have anything to say to you and I didn't want you to think that I might be interested in having a conversation with you so I don't want to talk" the backhanded comments seem to be a way to control the environment to make sure no one is getting something that they might not have deserved. I wanted to write about covert narcissism and find out if anyone out there has had a similar experience to me. thank you both for writing. If there's any paperwork regarding debt and make sure that there's nothing in your name that your husband could use to make it seem like you're an unfit mother. So a lot of put downs of others especially at work if someone else gets promoted ie it really should have been them because they are way smarter. JavaScript is disabled. Meaning, you may not know for a long time that youre dealing with a narcissistic person, because they act more introverted, may pretend to be humble, etc. My OCPDxh played the martyr. I came here to say the same thing. But to break the ethical codes of your profession, is another. Finally, narcissists are very manipulative, thats probably the biggest thing to remember. It is quite rude to dismiss people in that way. She is amazing, it was very educational. But of the person is not treating you as a friend should. What I mean is my uOCPDw behaves this way not out of a specific plan or even with any intent of causing harm, she is just wired this way. However, I can also see how this is not an official diagnosis and means nothing until someone can get it all documented. There are so many points in this thread that I dont know where to start. I agree with this part of the thread as well. evil You sound very knowledgeable in this and thats exactly what I need. I was having the same idea about my sister. She was worried she could loose her license. They go about it differently. Now I dont know. I hope OPs husband sign led a release for her to discuss things with OP, since the husband was supposed to be the patient and not OP. This is hard to deal with. I dont think Ive had a deep conversation with him for many years. I don't know what I will do about all this. so they immediately hook you up to everything you could possibly qualify for: health insurance, foodstamps, ssi, section 8 housing, etc. This action cannot be undone. The woman who I often call my 'best friend' is someone who I now strongly suspect of being a very toxic individual - what they call a 'covert narcisist'. She advised me to get another individual therapist (I actually already have one but theyre based in my previous city and the psyD that called me said I need someone in my current state. And very recently.. Ive had this awful feeling that hes trying to kill me! This is what brought all my suspicionsto a head. Now, I feel her interest was only so as to find ways to 'get' to me, by exploiting my weaknesses. Very little direct conversation, controlling in conversation to keep you on your toes. Humble. Anytime he could martyr - he would. The longer you stay; the harder he will make it to leave. Ask her what else she can do because the more documentation you have to back up your reasons for leaving the better. Not taking on her husband doesnt keep her out of court. Its definitely eye opening when you realize that the things you were perceiving are real. Yes - we can get so used to people treating us badly that we might imagine that's how people are - empty and self-glorifying - always right and demanding attention - in any way possible, I think I was lucky in that my father and grandparents had better intentions and I knew better - but our mother is the hardest DVD in our heads to turn off - because that's the voice - all we knew - before birth - our beginnings are mostly erased - we are so helpless - but that's how it is, Still - I had a think about the mythology behind Narcissus - who thought he was so beautiful that everyone would do anything to please him. Found someone else and did our intake forms. And I have wondered why she labels so many peopleas 'boring' - people are just people - if you find others boring, then you are not trying hard enough to actually get to know them, in my opinion. Don't make it appear that you're disappearing or 'stealing' your children away from your husband because that will come back to bite you. First, I love your username Schitts Creek is my favorite! - if straight away do you tell her why or just be really busy all the time? Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. But she had another side which was nasty and which I knew I didn't deserve, as I am always nice to her. And while OPs husband may be a narcissist, this is not at all an appropriate or ethical way of handling it. psychologies Not like the crazy circles that have been my life for the past 5-6 years, its different circles. Early on, she seemed to take a very keen interest in meand asked me lots and lots of personal questions which I felt made me warm towards her. The passive aggressive snide comments, put downs, you all know what it's like. about 6 months ago she overtly threatened me about going to the police and accusing me of any number of things. from what i understand, there are only a few dv shelters in the whole US that accept men. A lot of envy of others coming out of a quiet sense of entitlement. Just read your comment about credit cards. narc But regardless, if youre worried for your safety or your childs, its time to get out. For the longest time I have felt like he was setting me up to always look bad. They may diagnose him with NPD, they may diagnose him with something else, or nothing at all. Like meeting him for the first time, a covert narcissist. then they would not use it. Learn more about, Your Guide to the First Trimester of Pregnancy, Your Guide to the Second Trimester of Pregnancy. Good point manya makes, probably should have elaborated more about DV support agenciesthat when it comes to temporary accommodation they generally are only setup to provide this to women. Because if she did it with OPs husband, Id be SHOCKED if she wasnt doing the same thing in other cases. further, she has nothing to support that claim. i did so, so i could start a traceable email conversation that not only has her admitting she threatened false claims against me, but i made sure that she admitted that i have never harmed her, that i have never threatened to harm her, that she has never felt scared or endangered by my presence and that she feels going forward, that those actions are not in my make up or likely to occur. SANE, C/O 700 Swanston St, Carlton VIC 3053. And now Im swimming for the shore (adapted from Ill be there for you), Quote from: Pepin on May 17, 2021, 12:29:30 AM, Quote from: Sheppane on May 17, 2021, 04:10:32 AM, Quote from: Dandelion on May 17, 2021, 10:16:02 AM, Quote from: JustKeepTrying on May 19, 2021, 02:19:40 AM, 2007-2018 Out of the FOG.

She said she can see and treat me but she can not see and treat my husband because he will retaliate against her and inevitably, she will end up in court during my divorce and she cant have that happen. My life has been a living hell. In regards to covert narcissism, if thats what hes dealing with (what YOURE dealing with, really) it can be pretty scary. i know it will be challenging, Very glad to hear this, and that services were available to you. Do it now. I found out my husband is toxic and stayed, for example, for one more year. cuz, yeah, if you have a place to stay and food to eat - no matter what else - your applications for assistance will be turned down or placed in the back of the line. Her put downs are nasty and unnecessary. I mean, that would be very confronting, wouldn't it? Is it possible for you to file for separation to immediately remove herself and your child from your husband until you figure out the best approach towards divorce? You may have found the same thing? Till now. If he was diagnosed, and was willing to seek therapy and help, he could learn to still be an effective parent. I actually dont think what the therapist did was very professional. I genuinely thought that she was interested in me and liked me. It's like it simmers at the root the whole time. with health professionals in the background to make sure everything is safe and supportive. you have no idea how soot on this is. My friend ended up with debt on cc that she didnt even know existed. she practically bragged that regardless of evidence i would be forced to move. but, in rare moment of clarity i sent her an email telling her how terrified i was of that specific threat. This really explained a lot of things to me. If you really believe him to be a covert narcissist- leave. This is a cruious thing- if you are a Narcissist - would your therapist come right out and say it????? Ive cried a thousand rivers. I knew I was coming to the right place! Because maybe these crazy things that I battle with inside are much more real than I think. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. narc Are you sure you want to delete your discussion? might be worth it, idk. You must log in or register to reply here. so the big catch with this was that our insurance doesnt cover couples counseling. Ive been a hot mess since yesterday. But I was used to being treated badly, so I didn't know any difference. And now, I realize I have no idea what hes capable of. Youll need a divorce lawyer. As far as finding out your husband is toxic and staying no one has diagnosed him officially or even seen him for that matter.